Wednesday, March 28, 2007

PAL 50/60Hz, Tearing, 480P etc

This is just a quick post to answer an issue I keep seeing come up on various message boards and now in some comments. Its in regards to some mistaken perception that a game runs 'slower' in PAL than NTSC.

This post is a comment on my previous entry :-

Why o why couldn't you guys leave a 60 Hz mode in the game for us PAL users? It makes me so fkn pissed of that our version is over 17% slower than the NTSC one.

And the big problem is that there's no way to import the game because I don't have a credit card.

Is it really that hard to include a 60 Hz mode. I know you have to work hard because of all the arrogant Europeans refusing to use the english language but is it reallt THAT impossible? The GoW series is ruined for me because of this simple reason.


In God of War NTSC we use what is known as a variable frame rate. It runs at 60 fps as much as possible but if there is too much going on on-screen, it gracefully drops the frame rate. However one second in game time still lasts one second in the real world as we dynamically adjust how much to increment the game clock for every frame. This frame rate dropping is also what causes the tearing. Tearing is worst when the game is almost, but not quite running at full frame rate. We decided this was better than switching between 30 and 60, a contentious decision but I am 100% sure its the right one for the play experience.

On the PAL version we make the game run at 50 Frames Per Second. But every second in the game still lasts a second. It doesn't run slower at all. I am not sure where you got that impression, probably from the boards? If you compared them side by side, they would look identical. Actually the PAL version would look a bit prettier since the NTSC standard is crap at doing RED, it bleeds out. But anyone playing the game would not do it faster on either version.

One other subtle advantage of running in PAL is that you actually get less screen tearing, since the game has slightly longer (1/50 sec vs 1/60) to prepare each frame. And finally the screen resolution for PAL is slightly higher than NTSC to satisfy the PAL TV standard.

The main reason we don't include a switch to make the game be playable at 50 or 60 fps, is that we specially convert all the movies to work at 50 FPS (Actually 25 in an MPEG vs 30 in the US) In order to make everything look as good as possible, we render the movies out at 50 fps to make sure they will look as good as possible on PAL TV's. We also have special versions of the Normal and Widescreen movies that are compressed from full resolution source material, so we reduce the artifacts of the compression wherever possible. Believe me we are really anal retentive about this stuff. Probably way more than we need to be.

Finally there is 480P. I know that a lot of people get pissed about this one as well. The reasons we don't do it on the PAL version are connected to the stuff above. There is no PAL 480P definition that I am aware of. 480P calls for running at 60 HZ. This means that we would have to include, or convert in real-time, the movies to run at 60. That would effect the quality of the MPEGS too much to be acceptable for the vast majority of people who will not play in 480P.

So sorry if you feel like you are getting a bum deal, if you consider less screen tearing, higher render resolutions, 6 languages etc as being bad!

121 comments:

Stefan said...

I kindly thank you for taking the time to answer my question so detailed.

But I have played both the NTSC version and the PAL version of God of War (the first one) and the PAL version honestly is slower. Maybe it's just a trick of the mind cause of the less frames per seconds and loss of animations that way. (I'm not 100% in to how it works honestly) but the way I can see it with my eyes is that the game runs A LOT slower. This is not just a GoW problem but all games without 60 Hz selector runs like this (Tekken Tag, Final Fantasy X, Gran Turismo 3 etc)

This is just a (stupid) thought from me but, Isn't it possible to include a 50/60 Hz selector for the in game stuff and then later have the FMV in just 50 Hz so that the game switches to the 50 Hz movies when you play 60 Hz?

As for the progressive mode. I belive the PAL standard is 576p but I understand that may be too much for the PS2 to render so the reason why that is gone is highly understandable.


Again thank you very much for taking the time to answer my question. But I would advise you to play the NTSC version of the game for an hour or so and then switch to the PAL. Belive me you will see a tremendous difference in speed and the PAL mode will sadly be seen as somewhat boring in comparision.

//
Stefan

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Robin said...

As stefan said,

theres no 480P in PAL, but there is 576P (Euro PS3s via HDMI emulate all games like this!).

The problem with this is though that Europe "missed" the EDTVs somehow. We only now got HD Ready tvs which do support all of this!

But then again, as I already have my PS3, I can play it progressive nontheless^^

Rob (robbo) said...

I played the hell out of both PAL and NTSC and the screen tearing still bugs the hell out of me. I wish we could have fixed it for both games.

They are pretty much identical in speed. Certain parts where the frame rate drops seems to be easier tospot on the PAL version. Could be me smokin the crack again though...

Vitali said...

I only had a frame-rate drop ONCE in God of War in the entrance of Pandora's Temple... I don't remember it in the NTSC version. But that could just be me with my sucky memory...

The loss of 480P obviously means no 576P for us, too. That means, no HD for me on my PS3 with GoW2. Ah well... I still want to play the game as much as I have when they first announced it. Maybe even more, LOL.

Thanks for the info, Tim. You made me a smarter person.

Anonymous said...

@stefan i really think it's not very fair and tbh not very smart to ask any developer to play both versions of (read:their own) game, lol you can't expect one developer to magically transform a PAL region into an NTSC one simply by putting a PAL60 mode on one game do you? thats what local MP's and the government are for if you want your voice heard after all they are the knight's of the round table. you sir need to educate yourself and the quicker the better. if it's really that bad i suggest you give sum US buddies a call if you know what i mean. as for God of War i will be thoroughly enjoying it and one more thing my Ps3 is calling out for a GOW3 honor and glory to the devs, do your best.

Stefan Hanna said...

@anonymous:

I know it may seem disrespectful but do you have a clue about how many games in Europe that get totally destroyed because the developers don't give a damn? Take a big company like Square Enix, they totally butcher their games over here with useless 50Hz mode that actually runs almost 20% slower IN GAME, honestly. And huge black boarders (10-15 cm) on the top and button of the screen.

I may seem like a prick but having this discussion and getting the answer from Mr Moss here has given me a lot of info and understanding about the whole matter.

BTW: I did get my hands on a NTSC version of the game at last! Though it wasn't cheap I'll tell you that!

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